Q&A with Brad Wagnon & Beth Anderson on Cherokee culture, language, and picture books for kids

Baby’s First Cherokee and The Cherokee Syllabary, two picture books written by Brad Wagnon and illustrated by Beth Anderson, introduce kids from all cultures to the Cherokee language and its written form, depicted in syllables rather than via an alphabet, which is simply fascinating if you're at all interested in language and its written form. (Maybe most babies aren't yet intrigued by that but as an adult human, I am, and the picture book version is just the right kind of introduction to something that might otherwise seem overwhelming as I'm not a linguist.) Our review of those books is here. I had some additional questions for Brad and Beth and they were kind enough to provide their responses.

Brad Wagnon, Cherokee author

Beth Anderson, Cherokee illustrator

1. I’m really curious what made you choose the words you chose for Baby’s First Cherokee. Was there a theme you were working with that connect these words (example, woman to bee to song to books to family etc.) or are these simpler words in Cherokee that tend to be among children’s first words?

Beth: I’m going to defer to Brad on this one. In our partnership, he is our writer and language person and I illustrate in pen and ink/watercolor.

Brad: Our vision behind this series was to give children learning Cherokee the same opportunities to learn their language as we had as children learning English. My thought was to pick words that I’d seen in other baby books and I asked Beth to give them her unique Cherokee flair with the illustrations.  I think she knocked it out of the park.

2. Similarly, I’d love to hear the rationale behind the words you chose to depict The Cherokee syllabary. Are these particularly important concepts, symbols, and images in Cherokee culture and history? Are they important to you personally as author and illustrator?

Beth: Illustration wise, each image depicts one or more things important to Cherokee culture collectively, and as an extension to us as Cherokee individuals. They include historical Mississippian symbols and references to our stories, art, and food.

Brad: This one was a little different.  We tried to pick words that were in some way culturally significant.  It was easier for some syllabary characters than others.  For example, the syllabary sound "dla" we had to reach into a Cherokee story in which the bat plays a pivotal role. Others were easy to pick like the pages depicting the bear, wolf, corn and tobacco.

3. I was fascinated with the concept that Cherokee is made up of syllables rather than alphabet sounds. Is this more a trick of translation from oral to literate culture or is this inherent within the language itself?

Beth: I’d say Inherent; it is a syllabary from its creation, as opposed to an Alphabet.

Brad: Yes the syllabary is the invention of Sequoyah.  He isolated the sounds he heard in the Cherokee spoken language and brought them to life via his syllabary.

4. I would love to hear some of the history of the Cherokee language. What are its closest linguistic relatives? How many native speakers of Cherokees are there today? Is it spoken in homes as a first language or do most Cherokee speakers learn it as a second language?

Beth: It’s an Iroquoian language, becoming its own distinct language somewhere around 3500 to 4000 years ago. It is spoken as a first language in homes, but if I had to make an educated guess, I would say that presently most new speakers are learning it as a second language or learning it alongside English.  I’m not sure on an exact number, but I believe there are somewhere between 1,500 to 2,100 speakers presently. We have a language center, immersion schools, and online classes.

Brad: I think Beth answered that perfectly.  The language has of course evolved over thousands of years.  It is a living language.

5. How and when did Cherokee transition from an oral to a written language?

Beth: Sequoyah developed it after becoming inspired by European written language post-European contact. He developed it over many years, finishing it in the 1820s. It was officially adopted by Cherokee Nation in 1825.

Brad: As Beth said, Sequoyah is the genius behind the invention of the written Cherokee Language. There are stories that thousands of years ago Cherokee holy men had a ceremonial written language but that language was lost when the holy men became corrupt.  But the accepted version is that this version was an invention of Sequoyah alone.

6. Often in the transition of oral to written, the early transcriber/translators used the Roman alphabet since they were often Europeans, and often missionaries, but in this case, it seems like an entirely unique syllabary was used in place of the usual alphabet and may have been created by a Cherokee. Can you talk about the historic and linguistic process involved in transitioning the language from oral to written?

Beth: The syllabary was originally very organic in shape, like cursive, but was modified for print. Cherokee were the first to publish a Native American newspaper. The characters were modified at that time from existing Latin and Greek type, long used in printing.

Brad: A group of leaders including Sequoyah, Elias Boudinot, and a missionary, Samuel Worcestor, developed what is called the Cherokee Syllabary using parts of Sequoyah’s original syllabary and letters taken from other languages in order to make the language more suitable for the printing press. They printed books, The Cherokee Phoenix Newspaper, and the Bible in Cherokee.

7. I am curious how much you have thought, as a writer and illustrator, about what is lost when a language transitions from oral to written and what is gained. In this case, what was lost for the Cherokees and what was gained in this transition?

Beth: As a Cherokee language learner, not a native speaker, I quickly learned just how much you need to understand culture to be able to communicate effectively in and understand the Cherokee language. I feel that it’s impossible to separate the two.

Brad: I think of it in terms of our stories which have been passed down orally for thousands of years. Cherokee storytellers are given more liberty than some tribes’ storytellers to embellish the stories and make them their own. By writing the stories down, you lose a bit of that originality and end up with more of a rote version or accepted version of a story.

8. The note at the back of the book says “The concept for the illustrations was influenced by medieval illuminated manuscripts.” I love these illustrations so much. Why did you choose to be influenced by medieval illuminated manuscripts? What are you trying to evoke as an illustrator with that? How and in what way do you also evoke Cherokee cultural and aesthetic/artistic influences?

Beth: I too have always loved Illuminated manuscripts, so when Brad came to me with his idea, I was all in. As an illustrator, I approached it first with the syllabary character, then with the word we chose that corresponded to that character. I thought deep and hard about what aspects of culture and imagery would best depict the word and work with the character. Culture is firmly embedded in each illustration. Many I tried to make educational as well. For instance, the character “D,” which sounds like ah, we chose the word ᎠᎹ (ama phonetically), which means water. The illustration itself contains the water cycle, so that teachers could use it as a teaching tool as well.

Brad: I am a big history nerd.  I can’t really say the medieval period is my favorite period in history but it’s in the top 5. I’ve always been interested in post-Roman Britain as well.  Illuminated manuscripts have always fascinated me.  The combination of art and learning that is exemplified in these historic documents combines two things I love. When I pitched the idea to Beth, she was excited and I knew she was the right person to bring this idea to life. Her combination of the concept and culturally significant Cherokee designs brings the idea and the Cherokee syllabary to life.

9. What are your hopes and dreams for these two books and their uses among both Cherokees, other Indian nations, and non-Indians?

Beth: My hope is that it acts as a tool to help to teach or at least be introduced to our language and culture. It is a critically endangered language and it’s very important for us to do what we can to help it. We’re losing first language speakers at an alarming rate, and we lose culture with each that passes.

Brad: I’ve been an educator of a kind pretty much my whole adult life.  My parents were teachers and the fact that they bought my brother and I books and read to us greatly influenced our lives and focus on education.  My hope is like Beth’s that these books and the ones we do in the future will be used by teachers, parents, and grandparents to teach their precious children our language.

Q&A by J.L. Powers